Originally published May 4, 2013 at 8:03 PM | Page modified May 4, 2013 at 8:11 PM
Do visas for skilled foreigners shut out U.S. tech workers?
Even as Microsoft and other tech companies lobby for more H-1B visas to hire skilled temporary foreign workers, hundreds of thousands of American engineers and programmers are failing to find full-time jobs.
By Kyung M. Song and Janet I. Tu
Seattle Times staff reporters
Last year, Mitchell Erickson earned what he believed would be his ticket to a lucrative new career: a bachelor’s degree in computer science and software engineering from the University of Washington, Bothell.
Erickson, a former community-college philosophy instructor, feared his days of making a living teaching symbolic language and logic couldn’t last. So sensing an intellectual similarity between philosophy and computer coding, Erickson decided to go back to school.
Though he was then in his late 50s, Erickson figured the drumbeat of complaints from Microsoft and other tech companies about a dearth of good applicants promised an easy career switch.
Nine months past his graduation, however, Erickson has yet to find full-time work.
“When I saw my (philosophy) career was going to be over, I retrained myself,” Erickson, now 60, said. “What good is that if I’m not actually going to get a job?”
Erickson is among hundreds of thousands of jobless or underemployed programmers and engineers nationwide who’ve had difficulty finding full-time work despite reports of a scarcity of qualified American high-tech workers.
Microsoft, for instance, says it has such trouble filling its more than 3,000 vacancies for software developers and engineers it expects to offer a third of those jobs to foreigners, the vast majority of them recruited off U.S. college campuses.
The national unemployment rate for computer and math occupations is about half that for the general population. But the plight of the struggling workers in those fields has become a flashpoint for controversy in Congress over immigration reform, specifically how many more skilled foreign workers to allow in and under what terms.
Erickson, who graduated with a 3.52 GPA, has applied for more than 150 jobs, several of them at Microsoft. In February, he finally landed a job he enjoys as project manager for a Web-development company. But it’s only part time.
That seeming paradox stems from a host of factors.
Some economists blame pinpoint job requirements that can weed out otherwise-qualified job applicants. Others contend foreigners hired under H-1B temporary work visas are siphoning away good jobs. Older job-seekers suspect bias for recent graduates, who presumably would require less on-the-job training. Some workers lost jobs that were converted to contract positions at lower pay. Still others wonder if those who can’t find work are held back by real or perceived shortcomings.
Erickson said he can’t help but think that foreign competitors made his job search tougher, although he added, “I don’t know as a matter of fact that someone with an H-1B visa was hired instead of me.”
Room for more?
Last month, a bipartisan group of senators rolled out a plan that could more than double the current annual cap of 85,000 H-1B visas as part of a broad overhaul of immigration laws.
The proposal also would carve an eventual path to citizenship for residents here illegally and give priority to skilled immigrants over those entering through family ties.
Microsoft, Facebook and Google are among the powerhouse corporations lobbying for an increased labor pool of foreign talent.
Employers hiring H-1B workers are required to pay prevailing wages pegged by the U.S. Department of Labor as the average for a given job in a given market. But companies do not have to advertise the job or recruit Americans first. Most employers simply have to attest that visa workers won’t adversely affect people in similar jobs.
Some advocates for U.S. high-tech employees support tougher safeguards, such as requiring companies to advertise the jobs on a national website and to hire equally qualified Americans over visa applicants.
Experts disagree about the causes and extent of the high-tech labor shortage, and whether foreigners are being scapegoated.
To some critics, the purported shortage is a problem largely of employers’ own making.
Peter Cappelli, an economist at the Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania, says a real shortage would mean employers couldn’t find workers at any price. Instead, he and others blame employers who insist on candidates with exacting qualifications and no need for training.
“What do we think would happen if we didn’t bring in these foreign workers? Do we really think the work wouldn’t get done?” asked Cappelli, director of Center for Human Resources at Wharton.
Norman Matloff, professor of computer science at the University of California, Davis, goes even further. He contends employers sometimes just prefer foreigners over Americans.
“It really boils down to cheap, compliant labor,” Matloff said. “You, as the employer, have no leverage over American workers. But you do have huge leverage over foreign workers if they’re being sponsored for a green card.”
A former Microsoft product manager shares that suspicion. The manager was one of 1,400 people cut from the payroll in January 2009 as part of Microsoft’s first-ever companywide layoffs in the recession. The supervisors who eliminated her position were here on visas, as were two recent hires in her work group who dodged the downsizing.
Three weeks later, Artech Information Systems, a staffing firm, offered the product manager a three-month contract at Microsoft for what was essentially the same job she had left. The pay was $32 an hour, half her old salary.
The worker asked not to be named because she has found a new job and did not want to jeopardize it.
Nevertheless, other labor experts reject the notion that foreign workers are displacing American citizens and permanent residents.
Gordon Hanson, professor of economics at University of California, San Diego, says his research shows that foreign and American high-tech workers have comparable wages, meaning companies aren’t turning to foreign workers to cut costs. Employers such as Microsoft, he said, are merely trying to assemble the best teams they can from a worldwide talent pool — a reasonable approach in a global economy.
If concerns exist that workers may be locked in to a single, sponsoring employer, Hanson said the solution isn’t to limit the number of H-1B visas but rather to make them portable by allowing workers to more readily switch employers.
Brad Smith, Microsoft’s general counsel and chief lobbyist on the visa issue, defends the need for more imported talent. Smith said Americans simply aren’t studying science, technology, engineering and math (STEM) in sufficient numbers or depth to keep pace with demand.
About 70 percent of foreign workers Microsoft intends to hire are currently finishing studies at U.S. universities, Smith said during a recent interview in Washington, D.C.
He called hiring new graduates “extremely important” for an industry that’s “continually sparked by innovation.”
“That doesn’t mean those of us who are older are not helping,” Smith added, citing experience, management skills and life perspective as among their contributions.
Smith has also said that Microsoft pays its American and visa workers the same salaries, and he’s told Congress that if employers just wanted to hire the cheapest workers, they’d move the jobs overseas.
The company also offers training opportunities for its existing workforce.
Reliance on foreign workers varies greatly among employers. Facebook, for instance, recently crossed the 15 percent threshold for foreign workers to be classified as a “visa dependent” company subject to more depend_emplr.htm stringent rules on recruiting.
Microsoft is by far the heaviest single user of H-1B visas in the Puget Sound region. About 10 percent of the company’s 58,000-member U.S. workforce are holders of visas of various types. Microsoft doesn’t track how many of the additional workers who come to the company through contracting firms are on visas.
High demand for some
At the same time, many U.S. STEM graduates have no trouble snagging jobs.
Professor Ed Lazowska, associate chairman of the computer science and engineering department at the University of Washington, said competition is especially fierce for the most talented, with his students often fielding multiple job offers.
Lazowska said the difference between a top software engineer and a middling one is enormous. That, he speculated, might be one explanation for why some job searches are difficult. Employers, Lazowska said, seek applicants with stellar grades from well-regarded computer-science programs. They also look for successful past internships and résumés showing ability to constantly update skills in a fast-changing industry.
Michelle Lim can attest to that. Lim, 21, had by November lined up a job as a software developer at Seattle-based Tableau Software, to begin after she graduates from the UW in June. Multiple companies had pursued her, and she turned down a second job offer.
“The field is changing constantly and companies are going to want to find the best of the best” from inside and outside of the U.S., said Lim, who is a U.S. citizen.
The career path for Gary Emiddio Bello has been far rockier. Bello, a software engineer from Snohomish, went six years without working full time after he was laid off in May 2004 from his $75,000 job at Spacelabs Medical, a medical devices and services company.
Spacelabs immediately rehired him as a consultant. But that $85-an-hour gig lasted only 10 months. Bello did not draw a full paycheck again until July 2011, when he became a contract worker at Amazon.
The experience at Amazon led to a one-year stint as a senior Java developer at Expedia in Bellevue. Then last month, Bello took a full-time contract job at AT&T Labs in Bothell, earning $58 an hour with no benefits.
Bello, 62, credits an open-minded recruiter at Amazon for breaking his long spell without steady income.
“My skills did not drastically change … before I broke through,” he said. Employers “don’t care what you did for the last 20 years. They only care what you did for the last two.”
Bello is grateful to be working full time and does not mind being a temporary employee.
Still, “it was a long while (of) not working before I got my foot in the door,” he said.
Visas for high-skilled workers could double under bipartisan Senate plan
A Senate immigration plan would dramatically increase the number of high-skilled foreign workers allowed into the country and give permanent legal status to an unlimited number of students who earn graduate degrees from U.S. universities in science, technology, engineering or math, according to people familiar with the negotiations.
The agreement would be a major victory for the tech industry, which has backed an intense lobbying campaign on Capitol Hill in recent months arguing that Google, Facebook, Microsoft and other companies are having trouble finding qualified workers because of visa limits.
Silicon Valley and Immigrant Groups Find Common Cause
By SOMINI SENGUPTA
Published: February 12, 2013
SAN FRANCISCO — What do computer programmers and illegal immigrants have to do with each other?
When it comes to the sweeping overhaul of the nation’s immigration laws that Congress is considering this year, the answer is everything.
Silicon Valley executives, who have long pressed the government to provide more visas for foreign-born math and science brains, are joining forces with an array of immigration groups seeking comprehensive changes in the law. And as momentum builds in Washington for a broad revamping, the tech industry has more hope than ever that it will finally achieve its goal: the expanded access to visas that it says is critical to its own continued growth and that of the economy as a whole.
Signs of the industry’s stepped-up engagement on the issue are visible everywhere. Prominent executives met with President Obama last week. Start-up founders who rarely abandon their computers have flown across the country to meet with lawmakers.
This Tuesday, the Technology CEO Council, an advocacy organization representing companies like Dell, Intel and Motorola, had meetings on Capitol Hill. On Wednesday, Steve Case, a founder of AOL, is scheduled to testify at the first Senate hearing this year on immigration legislation, alongside the head of the deportation agents’ union and the leader of a Latino civil rights group.
“The odds of high-skilled passing without comprehensive is close to zero, and the odds of comprehensive passing without high-skilled passing is close to zero,” said Robert D. Atkinson, president of the Information Technology and Innovation Foundation, a nonpartisan research group based in Washington.
The push comes as a clutch of powerful Senate Republicans and Democrats have reached a long-elusive agreement on some basic principles of a “comprehensive” revamping of immigration law. Separately, a bipartisan bill introduced in the Senate in late January focuses directly on the visa issue.
The industry’s argument for more so-called high-skilled visas has already persuaded the president.
“Real reform means fixing the legal immigration system to cut waiting periods, reduce bureaucracy, and attract the highly-skilled entrepreneurs and engineers that will help create jobs and grow our economy,” Mr. Obama said in Tuesday’s State of the Union speech.
In a speech in Las Vegas in January in which he introduced his own blueprint for overhauling immigration law, Mr. Obama embraced the idea that granting more visas was essential to maintaining innovation and job growth. He talked about foreigners studying at American universities, figuring out how to turn their ideas into businesses.
In part, the new alliance between the tech industry and immigration groups was born out of the 2012 elections and the rising influence of Hispanic voters.
“The world has changed since the election,” said Peter J. Muller, director of government relations at Intel, pointing out that the defeat of many Republican candidates had led to a softening of the party’s position on broad changes to immigration law. “There is a focus on comprehensive. We’re thrilled by it.”
“At this point,” he added, “our best hope for immigration reform lies with comprehensive reform.”
Mr. Case, the AOL co-founder, who now runs an investment fund, echoed that sentiment after meeting with the president last Tuesday.
“I look forward to doing whatever I can to help pass comprehensive immigration reform in the months ahead,” he said, “and ensure it includes strong provisions regarding high-skilled immigration, so we are positioned to win the global battle for talent.”
That sort of sentiment delights immigrants’ rights advocates who have banged their heads against the wall for years to rally a majority of Congress around their agenda.
“The stars are aligning here,” said Ali Noorani, executive director of the National Immigration Forum. “You’ve got the politics of immigration reform changing. You’ve got tech leaders leaning in not just for high-skilled but for broader immigration reform.”
Senator Orrin G. Hatch, Republican of Utah, who is co-sponsoring the bill to increase the number of visas available for highly skilled immigrants, said the cooperation went both ways.
“All the talk about the STEM field — science, technology, engineering, mathematics — has awakened even those who aren’t all that interested in the high-tech world,” he said.
While the growing momentum has surprised many in Washington, comprehensive change is still not a sure thing, especially in the Republican-controlled House.
Mr. Hatch said he would push forward with his measure even if the broader efforts foundered. But his Democratic co-sponsor, Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota, said she would press for the bill to be part of the comprehensive package.
Last year, technology executives had a taste of what could happen with stand-alone legislation.
In November the House passed a bill, sponsored by Representative Lamar S. Smith, Republican of Texas, that would have provided 55,000 visas for foreigners graduating from American universities with advanced degrees in STEM fields. Mr. Smith, then the chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, brought considerable clout, and the tech industry rallied behind the bill.
But the legislation died in the Senate, because Democrats wanted any technology-specific measure to be part of a broader bargain that would include more visas for family members.
In pressing its case, the industry has used some vivid examples to sway lawmakers, arguing that if skilled workers cannot get visas, tech companies will simply move the jobs overseas.
Facebook was the latest to make this case. It said it had to place nearly 80 engineers in its office in Dublin in 2011 because it could not obtain even temporary work visas to employ them at the company’s headquarters in Menlo Park, Calif. Those temporary visas, called H-1B visas, are capped at 65,000 a year and usually run out within a couple of months. The bill proposed by Mr. Hatch and Ms. Klobuchar would more than double that number.
Microsoft has also argued that the visa backlog takes jobs out of the United States, saying it was forced to open a development office in Vancouver.
Hundreds of thousands of foreigners, the largest share from India and China, come to American universities every year to study science and engineering. But it can take so long for them to get permanent residency that many end up returning home. Mr. Hatch said he was keen to see foreign-born graduates of American universities remain in this country rather than work for competitive firms elsewhere.
“China, India — they would love to have these Ph.D.’s return to their countries,” he said. “They see the benefits. Why can’t we?”
There is no dearth of jobs in Silicon Valley. Employment in San Francisco and its southern suburbs grew about 3.6 percent in 2012, twice the growth rate nationally, according to a study released last week by Joint Venture Silicon Valley, a nonpartisan research organization.
But many of those jobs are filled by foreigners. In San Mateo and Santa Clara Counties, nearly two-thirds of those employed in science- and engineering-related jobs were born abroad, compared with about one-fourth nationwide, according to the study.
Industry executives hope to employ many more.
“The issue has truly ripened,” said Bruce Mehlman, a veteran Washington lobbyist and executive director of the Technology CEO Council. “Levels of optimism are higher than they’ve been in a while.”
While I love families, when it comes to law, I think it should broadly benefit the nation, or not be passed. We need people, skills, leadership, and yes money. Through our history quite a lot have come to our shores through the hard work of immigrants. Which would be all of us, ‘native’ Americans as well as all more recent arrivals. It’s time immigration rulers made sense, in terms of the needs of the country. Given that, how much easier might it than be to ensure fairness to those would-be immigrants, as well as would-be citizens already amongst us?
Feb. 14, 2013 at 1:44 a.m.
After reading all the comments, I feel like people are missing one simple point. If you don’t allow American companies to hire foreigners in the US, they will hire them somewhere else. IBM has more employees in India than in the US. So, would you rather want your jobs outsourced or have jobs in the US and get contribution to the US economy through taxes paid by foreigners?
Feb. 14, 2013 at 1:15 a.m.
H1-B program formula simple!
1. Get H1-B employee from abroad at 40K or less.
2. Keep the greencard dangling….. For years!
3. H1-B pays visa fees, lawyers fees and cannot shift employer.
4. Employer gets a low-paid employee tied down.
5. USCIS does not stamp H1-B visa on passport on renewal.
6. Employee or family members cannot have multiple-entry travel.
7. Employee locked in company & locked in country.
Want a low-paid, tied-down employee? Ask for more H1-B!
Everyone’s looking for a better life. This is sad.
Feb. 14, 2013 at 12:12 a.m
Cheryl Roswell, GA
I’ve worked with Indian colleagues who were talented and wonderful people. Ad I’ve heard them make remarks that, if they were Americans, would have landed them in the HR offices pronto.
Sorry, we need to focus on hiring our own people, citizens, before we extend more visas.
Feb. 13, 2013 at 10:54 p.m.
What if “our own people” don’t have the necessary skillset or at least in the numbers needed by the industry? You didn’t seem to have read the article.
Feb. 14, 2013 at 12:12 a.m.
[IT employers in cooperation with the government should emphasize STEM education]
Having seen first hand how the H1B visa program has destroyed programming as a career in the US I can’t believe we are going to allow, to quote John Kerry, Benedict Arnold CEOs more visas to complete the task.
Outsourcing has been the buzzword for years. But with the current turnover in Indian personnel these days projects often go nowhere. And the projects which have been shipped overseas, often come back shoddy and deficient in satisfying the business need.
Yet when it comes time for layoffs, it’s the “expensive” American worker who takes the hit. And to add further insult, often has to train his Indian or Chinese replacement in order to receive severence. Unfortuantely, with additional H1B visas this regression to the mean will only continue.
So when you hear a CEO say, they cannot find qualified American workers, they really mean they cannot find any qualified American workers willing to work for 50% less pay.
Feb. 13, 2013 at 10:54 p.m.
“What do computer programmers and illegal immigrants have to do with each other?
Simple answer: Both helping US Big Business to decrease LABOR COST, same justification used to bring more “qualified slaves” to do work American’s won’t. H1B was invented by, guess who, Greenspan himself (!), with only reason to reduce cost of hiring “PHDs”. There are many positions “open” already, biotech example, which require Master degree and offer $10/hr pay.
This is blatant interference with free market ideas, where demand-supply supposed to adjust for real economic needs. WHY there are no Doctors/Lawyers/Wallstreet traders with worker visas??
If this process continues, MOST US graduates will be bankrupt or will work “poor” and pay interest for decades ahead, without bankruptcy protection, thanks to Bush.
Feb. 13, 2013 at 10:43 p.m.
If you hate what tech companies are doing (“attempting to import cheap labor aboard”) – don’t buy a single product from any company that supports this legislation. I’d like to see all these commenters who are so passionate about limiting H1B visas put their money where their mouth is.
Feb. 13, 2013 at 9:07 p.m.
Indian New Jersey
A company in Illinois has given big project to Indian Company and American Company.Both companies have only Indians. The Indian company has brought in many IT professionals from India with a low pay. Client itself is famous for low wages.I wonder how much the Indian company will be paying its employees. Inflow is so high that town is building new apartments. My cousin who works for the Client who is Indian and has been living in USA for 15 years was tired and shocked. Even her peers who are american are frustrated with the client for handing over the project to two companies where as it can be done internally. It’s not only Americans but also other H1bs are frustrated due to entry of consulting companies which bring down the wages.
Feb. 13, 2013 at 9:07 p.m.
Indian New Jersey
Hi, I am from India. Many friends of mine who are in IT field did tell that companies like TCS,WIPRO and other indian companies bring IT professionals from India by paying less salaries say 50k-70k.The same professionals if they work for consulting companies in USA will be paid $100k-$140k. These days H1b’s have become tight as USCIS is very strict so these companies have started bringing many indian professionals on B1 visas and L1 visas. Indian Corporate companies need to be blamed for lowering the wages.It is time that USCIS takes action on these indian companies. I also have another thing to share. Most of my friends in IT who work in USA with top companies on H1b earn $100k-$150k. We can blame indian IT companies but not all H1b’s in the country.My husband is a Phd and Scientist. He earns $100k.So, lets not brush all H1b’s as low paid people. 75% of H1b’s earn more than $100k. I feel bad when I come across comments that all H1bs are low paid workers. You guys are totally wrong on that. My husband and my friends are examples that H1bs are paid equal to american citizens if not more.
Feb. 13, 2013 at 8:51 p.m.
Bill Gates love to talk up this skills “shortage” by brining up the number of open positions available on Microsoft’s website(something like a few thousand). Yet anyone who’s ever applied for one of these positions know they never get any response. A large majority of these job ads are fake job ads. The position has already been filled. Microsoft put in these job ads as a way to prove that there is no US citizen qualified for these positions. They have to do this as part of their green card application for their employees on h1b. Last year alone Microsoft obtained 5,000 new h1b visas plus 5,000 green cards for their existing h1bs.
If there is a genuine skills shortage, then these companies need to help alleviate this problem long term. We should hike the visa fee to $200,000 per H1b visa. Use some of this money to hire more people to investigate abuses, use some for border security, and the rest to sponsor a US citizen to major in a similar field. The foreign worker must return home after 4 years, when the US citizen will have graduated and can take over the position.
Feb. 13, 2013 at 7:47 p.m.
Wow…all these comments about the destruction of the middle class through over-immigration. Why hasn’t any of this registered with the Democratic Party? I can understand why the Republicans would support open borders–you get an unlimited labor supply and ever increasing demand for consumption–but what happened to the Democrats? I laugh when I see that unions support full citizenship, etc for illegals. It’s the unlimited labor supply that has helped destroy unions. Every job that isn’t nailed down gets shipped overseas and then, for the remainder, the labor is insourced. Great way to ruin a country.
Feb. 13, 2013 at 7:47 p.m.
Peter C Silicon Valley
Silicon Valley presses for H1B because they desperately want to increase the size of the available talent pool — not because a large absolute number of workers is required, but because competition for the top employees is huge. They’re looking for anything that increases the number of highly competent people available for hire, which is why ‘just hire out-of-work Americans’ is not necessarily a solution to the problem they experience.
Feb. 13, 2013 at 7:18 p.m
Scientella palo alto
AGAIN – stick it to the middle class.
Make sure that out of work american computer scientists have to compete with very hungry chinese and indians engineers for a job AND give hand outs to ILLEGAL immigrants to up the numbers for the next election.
Corruption for the top bundled with corruption for the bottom, all to the benefit of the .01 percent BIG business makes more money, and their corrupt buddies in Washington cheat the immigration law to enable their reelection.
Feb. 13, 2013 at 7:18 p.m
Not a Techie Back in the US
Not a techie, but have interviewed literally thousands of H1bs and – from a personal perspective – the process disadvantages U.S. workers. There are many extremely talented H1bs, but most I encountered are low-skilled graduates of low-tier schools whose main qualification is a willingness to work for a fraction of the going wage. Who benefits from importing thousands of IT workers? The system works a couple ways. First, the outsourcing giants win enormous IT contracts. They offer H1bs a salary of slightly over 60k (the magic number) because they don’t need to try and recruit a US worker for a job if the salary is 60k or above. Many of these beneficiaries are well-qualified; in fact, they’re worth far above the entry salary but will take it for the chance at a green card . The second way involves Schumer’s infamous “body shops” – H1bs with marginal skills petitioned by IT placement firms. These firms often don’t even have jobs waiting for them; many H1bs must find their own jobs and pay for all petition costs. Per law, companies must maintain the “right to control” their workers, but it’s laughable. DOL is supposed to verify the LCA, but it doesn’t have the resources to check even a fraction of the petitions. DHS tries to weed out the very worst offenders, but the volume is so high. These statistics don’t include the thousands of students in the US on F-1 visas who work for years on OPT for even less than an H1b, with next to no oversight from USCIS or DOL.
Feb. 13, 2013 at 6:18 p.m
We have the exact same program here in Canada called the “foreign temporary worker” program and it’s destroying job options for youth. The government has let this hideous program continue to function until finally the miner’s unions stepped in to stop it from bringing in 200 Chinese workers who were claimed to be superior to the locals. Subsequent lawsuits have exposed documents proving these companies turned down similarly skilled local workers. Not to mention the spouses and children that come into the country are COMPLETELY unprotected and wind up in shelters daily. Americans should reject these “guest” worker programs for what they are: government sanctioned human trafficking.
Feb. 13, 2013 at 6:17 p.m
Yang Phoenix AZ
We had more than enough investment bankers but not physical scientists, mathematicians, computer programmers and engineers. There is structural imbalance of what people want to do in USA. Importing people will only alleviate the pain in short time, since the problems are still there and will grow larger since importing foreigners may discourage the native-borne to pursue these professions. Disclosure: I am an immigrant from China.
Feb. 13, 2013 at 5:28 p.m
PJ New York, NY
Yes, God FORBID the Executives in the private sector pay taxes like the rest of us and simply fund an educational system that provides American workers skilled enough for the positions to be filled. The priorities of the Free Market are very much at odds with the priorities of the Nation as a whole. The Private Sector has NO business influencing Government in ANY way, shape or form- certainly not to the degree that they do now. There is NO long term thought in the boardroom; they would almost certainly sell the U.S. down the river for short term profit; their priorities are destructive to our Society and Environment on the whole and, quite frankly, have as much loyalty as any other turncoat. The Business of America is NOT Business; it is Freedom, Equality and Justice. The Business of CHINA is Business – got air? got water? Heh. THAT’S the “Corporate Leadership” you’ll get from the Private Sector.
Feb. 13, 2013 at 5:11 p.m